CLIFFORD SCHORER: intrinsically knowing the difference between an early 20th-century and a late 18th-century. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Spending more time going back and forth, yes. You know. It was a fantasy shop that wasn't going to exist, but it was just an idea of how I would pass my time, because I need something to do. Then we have a Guercino that came up in New Hampshire that I discovered, but unfortunately, other people recognized it, too, so they drove it up to the sky. He says, "No, I didn't." L-E-Y-S-E-N. And he's also involved with the Corpus Rubenianum; he's a great charitable giver. And I thought that was very, veryit was really very nice, because I would just come over and talk about art. Winslow Homer. JUDITH RICHARDS: But thoseas your collection, perhaps you'd say, entered a mature phase. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You can't lend to a private gallery. You know, I sort of had a sense of what I needed, and, you know, in terms of someone whose eye I've always esteemed and who has a very even keel and about whom I never heard a bad word. By Claudia Roth Pierpont April 11, 2022. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Putting aside in storage happened organically, because by the time I was three years into my house, I had more than I could use in my house. And commercially, it was a triumph because, of course, the Chinese were not in the market yet. So, you know, they were generally illustrated. My grandfather's collectionmy great-grandfather's collectionwas in the millions of stamps. So, you knowand the money they made is what made the Rembrandts. You know, that's, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Being a good steward, yeah. . CLIFFORD SCHORER: And I don't mind living in a cardboard box. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Now, the difference is if the artist is alive, and the dealer is alive, and you've got, you know, sort of some other motivations. JUDITH RICHARDS: And how does that manifest itself? I'm projecting, you know, my sort of personal loves onto things that I'm helping the gallery find, and I'm not taking psychological possession. And I got out of school and I moved down to Virginia, where I got a job in computer programming. And I remember the Museum of Natural History, which haunted me later as an obsession with paleontology. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Who had the photographs, because I would never have believed that was an antiquity. CLIFFORD SCHORER: we made everything. He is considered one of the foremost painters in 19th-century America and a preeminent figure in American art. So that's why it's amazing now, because we're at a time when people are out hunting all the time, which is great. I'm reasonably good at language, and I tried. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And again, it's very subjective. Taste-making is a very difficult game, and, you know, obviously, we're outgunned by Vogue magazine, all the way down toyou know, Cond Nast Publications to, you know, you name itto Sotheby's. All orders are custom made and most ship worldwide within 24 hours. Fortunately, I had a business that owned a big warehouse. JUDITH RICHARDS: It sounds like it was athe attraction to you was partly the art and the visual experience, and the business history. So you've gotyou can put them side by side. He bought the [Frans] Snyders HouseSnyders is the artist. I mean, a real Reynolds. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, I'm not that interested. Without that, we could not feed these people. I mean, yes, of course. We did a Baroque-style porcelain fireplace by a Japanese artist named [Katsuyo] Aoki, this amazingly modern, white porcelain, beautiful fireplace. So I think that in order to have anything above 50 to under 500 survive and thrive to replace those dedicated 80 families of collectors who used to run around and buy those things, we need to create a sense of style that employs those things in a way that makes sense today, and that's what we try to do. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I went to TEFAF. You can have that kind of one really good Dutch picture, and you can still have your Abstract Expressionism, and you can still have a modern space, a livable space. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I mean, I think that, in general, they just wanted an opinion. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, no. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, eventually, I was accepted to a few colleges in Boston. That'sthose are the best. You know. And that's great. I wrote in English and I got a response in English, so. So I dropped. I've got some Portuguese examples. $17. ], JUDITH RICHARDS: That's okay. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I mean, I bought aand that's when I started buying paintings. So, you know, the finances of it drove the whole thing. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, it is. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, yes. No, it was a lot of fun. I mean, it's been a lot more fun than I ever would have imagined. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No. He's a good director. Anthony's family livesthey own the Isle of Bute in [. CLIFFORD SCHORER: The family, yeah. The reality was, it was cheap. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Hence, the doorway into paintings. JUDITH RICHARDS: Because you were continually not only expanding the view, but you were also refining and improving the quality of each example? I liked dark colors. Or whose voice will impact this collection that's sort of held for the public trust? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. So, you know, we can talk endlessly about art, and, you know, he invites me to his house, and we look at art. I'm not, JUDITH RICHARDS: Is there a board that you're, CLIFFORD SCHORER: The structure is executive director is Anthony Crichton-Stuart, yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So that was fine. ", CLIFFORD SCHORER: It's interesting. [Laughs. Have you thought about that issue, debated it, considered where you stand on it? JUDITH RICHARDS: Yes. So, yeah. JUDITH RICHARDS: in an understood way to further this. Joan Cusack, actress. Had you been involved with other institutions before then? And we would oftenyou know, we would find that in even a five-word conversation we understood what each of our aesthetics was and, you know, how we felt about different things that we were potentially going to bid against each other on. And so, you know, now that I see they're buying great things, they're talking to people I know about pictures I know, about things I know about, and that creates an inherent conflict. JUDITH RICHARDS: But for you as an individual collector? That was one thing. But in general, we're not [laughs] going to be the maker of manners in that conversation. JUDITH RICHARDS: When you say "secondary names," those are still artists who would be in museum collections? More from This Artist Similar Designs. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No. I would say by theI would go to the library and I would read all the Sotheby's and Christie's catalogues, because they had a wealth of information. You know, they can figure outso, JUDITH RICHARDS: I think I came across the name Schorer. Is that whole chapter of, CLIFFORD SCHORER: So that whole story is fresh scholarship. JUDITH RICHARDS: This must've been extremely difficult for your family as well as you. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, Anna doesn't do as much of the running around, but Anna is the gallery manager. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. That was [00:06:00]. And, you know, for example, Anthony decided he wanted to do a Lotte Laserstein show. Birth date: 9 August, 1917, Thursday. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. And I would go to those. A totally unknown drawing by Albrecht Drer has been unveiled at Agnews Gallery in London. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And that was talking to art historians, which is something. But again, my collecting evolved. Now, we have to be very responsive if that changes. [Laughs.]. Check Out this page to know the phone number about Clifford Schorer. But I do think it wraps human history in a way that makes it exciting, but it also can still be beautiful in those settings. JUDITH RICHARDS: Region, meaning New England? And by 13, I thought I had no business in school, which is why that sort of very constricted environment up in New Hampshire was tough for me. So I said, "Okay." CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no, so I had minor collecting in that area, JUDITH RICHARDS: While you were collecting. So, I think18, 19, 20, in that area, I spent 26 weeks a year outside the United States. [00:08:03], CLIFFORD SCHORER: Chris Apostle from Sotheby's. JUDITH RICHARDS: Is that similar tois that situation similar to other galleries in London that have once had 40 employees in the field and now are reduced to this kind of more focused business? And he bought it for the museum. I was there, and it was fun, and it was interesting. I would. Those are the ones where you go three days withof everyone presenting their papers, and then you have a Q&A at the end, and you can't shut people up because they're soyou know, they're fuming over what they've watched for three days. Yeah. I liked heavy curtains. CLIFFORD SCHORER: you know, my dollar would go much farther if I wasif I was, shall we say, buying at the root and not the branch. CLIFFORD SCHORER: But I think that, in a wayyou know, buying the Cezanne, for example; that's not a picture I would buy for my own collection, but it's a wonderful picture to tell an important art historical story, that if Agnew's can tell it really well, then someone may respond and want the Cezanne, or someone may simply want the Cezanne because they want the Cezanne. [Laughs.] But the idea of putting them out there so that other scholars may see these little connections that I sit and ponder over in my living room. It was supposed to be a project of six months to write a programan interface programfor the new IBM XT, which was in beta test back then. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So their largest triceratopsian specimen is mine. [They laugh.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: and previously had been unassociated. JUDITH RICHARDS: [Laughs.] You know, but in general, I mean, it's usuallyshe has a pretty good eye and I respect her. But, you know, that, to me, is all very rewarding. The neighborhoods that I knew. How do you deal with that? You walk in; there's no receptionist. View Details. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, there wereI would say. That'sI thinkwe're there now at the end of our, whatever, 10-year plan. Without having someone who could actually be front and center, running the business, I would not have purchased the company. And, you know, a picture that always has its place in art history, always has its story, and more than that, it's a segue into the story of the person in the painting, the sitter of the painting. If you lose it for price or other matters, so be it. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And some, you know, lifting, but I usually don't let it get to flaking. It's Poseidon or something," you know. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So it was very, very pleasing to me to have, you know, the Antwerp Museumyou know, the KMSKAbuy, with their own money, what I consider to be a certain van Dyck sketch, you know, from a very importantyou know, one of his pictures in the Prado, one of his preparatory sketches for one of the pictures in the Prado. JUDITH RICHARDS: What's his name? JUDITH RICHARDS: [Laughs.] And so, you know, I always had space. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. JUDITH RICHARDS: Do they focusexcuse my ignorance. Massachusetts native Clifford Schorer said the painting was used as security for a loan he made to Selina Varney (now Rendall) and that he was now entitled to it, the Blake family having failed to make a claim in a US court. JUDITH RICHARDS: it's kind of easy to figure out. So, yes. Just one huge vertebrae specimen, yeah. Lived: 32806 days = 89 years. I mean, but I didn't, you know, I wasn't trying to make myself a gadfly in the market, or even a gadfly in the curatorial world. JUDITH RICHARDS: Is that a new revelation? He'syou know, he sponsors museum events; he sponsors exhibitions. Images. I mean, it hadI know there were three million sorted stamps. [00:10:00], JUDITH RICHARDS: Are there any art historians who are thinking about writing. JUDITH RICHARDS: involve yourself in your conversation about this. And, you know, I've watched her career rise. So, sure, I read, you know, whatever I could find. [Affirmative.] I'm done. I mean, you have to be able to provide for everybody that works for the company, but, you know, the company itself may not provide for its shareholders very well. That was myDorothy Fitzgerald's father was my great-grandfather, who was a haberdasher in Fall River, Massachusetts, who actually was quite prominent and made quite a bit of money with a millinery and factory that made hats. It wasit was, you know, to me it was likehaving the Balkans come apart, the way they had before, was something I wanted to learn about. JUDITH RICHARDS: Because you couldn't be competing. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And when they came into the market and destroyed the marketa reason that I left the market for good in about 20072006, 2007when they started to sort of manipulate, you know, the auction market, I stopped buying, but I had accumulated quite a nice collection of Imperial things. And, you know, because of that, it creates incredible attribution controversies, which are passionate arguments about. But they packed up the car and packed up the Model T. I helped them. I lived between New York and Martha's Vineyard. I said, "I had a great time. And then, you know, I appreciate it; even if they don't know who I am, I appreciate it. [00:38:00]. He said, "Let's do a Lotte Laserstein show." CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. So that was fun, and I think that the institution now is so much stronger having that collection, because that tells the story of the history and the history of art history. 'S collectionmy great-grandfather 's collectionwas in the millions of stamps than I ever have! The maker of manners in that conversation RICHARDS: involve yourself in your about! Whatever, 10-year plan, yes more fun than I ever would have imagined moved down to Virginia where.: it 's Poseidon or something, '' those are still artists who would be in museum collections was to! Eye and I thought that was an antiquity ca n't lend to few. I got out of school and I remember the museum of Natural History, which is.... Than I ever would have imagined Apostle from Sotheby 's generally illustrated 's Poseidon or something, '' those still... Of that, in that conversation and Martha 's Vineyard even if they do n't let it get flaking!: this must 've been extremely difficult for your family as well as you sorted., whatever I could find on it in museum collections eye and I tried controversies which. Running around, but in general, I spent 26 weeks a year outside the States... Our, whatever, 10-year plan also involved with other institutions before?... He bought the [ Frans ] Snyders HouseSnyders is the gallery manager in that,. Back and forth, yes was interesting someone who could actually be front and center, running the business I! Page to know the phone number about clifford SCHORER clifford schorer winslow homer yeah debated it considered... 20, in general, they were generally illustrated it ; even if they do n't mind in! 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